stoble

I have posted this elsewhere & wanted to get you guy's reaction. As I have lunch during the work week I see a number of LEOs eating also. Some are uniform and some are plain clothes. Because I am carrying and in condition yellow, I also get to watching them. I am curious how they do not seem to be in yellow also? No head movements, no looking at the things I look at, no interest in movement. They focus on the guy at their table in front of them and just socialize. Fairly cut off from the environment, unaware. The LEOs look to be in condition white.
I began carrying concealed in 1997 so this is not my first week. I do not believe they are really taking in all I am but are "professional" and have the ability to do this without me seeing it. You have to move the head to be alert. Of course I am 100% LEO supportive so don't go there on me. I am just surprised at their lack of checking out what is going on around us at lunch. One place is a grill inside a stop & rob. Great food and regular friends. Here I especially expect to see the signs of condition yellow alertness due to the local.
We are in a low crime town and I guess they don't feel the need to be any more alert. Of course I know I have to prepare for the worst and then be glad it did not happen. This ain't Heaven yet! Just this week, across the street from the stop & rob, someone shot a guy at a bar. As long as we are carrying a gun we need to be in condition yellow, regardless.

sheepdog

...this ole fat ex-training officer agrees completely...cops do get lax and comfortable...tend to draw into themselves in public and not look around...afraid to make others uncomfortable and be seen staring at them...it does jump up and bite 'em from time to time...


...to this day, I scope out the restaurant/store as I go in...if I don't see the storekeeper I stay at the door till I do...there's only one man I trust to watch my back and I carefully watch his...we don't have to be obnoxious, obvious, or have an attitude...but by choosing to live by the gun, we must shoulder a bit more responsibility for alertness and awareness than most folks...nothing, however, says we can't smile and be friendly while doing it...
...the best way to tell a slimeball "Not here you don't" is to simply look him in the eye as he approaches or comes in...they want sheep with their heads down....

deputy125

from this officer's perspective.......

to be honest........in certain areas such as alertness, firearm safety, accuracy, and combat shooting..folks have expectations that all LEO's are above avg citizens in the catagories.......which is true when compared to the average citizen.

now lets change the playing field.........compare the avg LEO to the avg CHL individual. The playing field rapidly becomes more even in all catagories and in truth, the CHL holder will most likely edge out the LEO in awarness, concealment, and safety because the CHL takes his CCW seriously. The CHL chooses his weapon, choses his rig knowing he must comply with the law to be able to keep his license. The CHL is literaly taking a secret agent approach and with that notion he is alert to many things. In fairness, the CHL is probably better versed in all aspects when it comes to CCW.

The class of officers nowadays are not the same as they were 20 years back. The majority of LEO's today are not "gun nuts", they are not fighters, they are not of the gun culture, and in truth they are not investigators....they are instead "report takers". They take the uniform, badge, gun, and position for granted and have become too comfortable in their routine as the "profession" has instead become a "job".

Looked at from another angle, if i was a betting man, i would bet on any.....and i do mean any local club avg joe involved in IDPA, IPSEC, and SASS to be able to outshoot the avg rank and file LEO just about anytime...anyplace. I'm not talking professional shooters here......i'm talking about the once a week good ole' boy type match shooters here defeating LEO's in a friendly club match. There are still some LEO's that will make it interesting and make it a good horse race......but they are getting far and few.

In all honesty, your expectations of the avg LEO's are unfortunately too high. There are above avg LEO's out there.......but you can not ever hope to expect all LEO's to measure up to your standards. LEO's do not deserve to be put on a pedestal as in assuming they are top hand in surrival, shooting, and alertness.......times have changed, and this is why CHL and CCW has become popular. Citizens should take an active role in their own protection.

stoble

Dupty you can preach! I talked with a friend that has worked with LEOs in one of the largest cities in this state. Now we are talking high crime rates for sure. She said out of the years she had lunches with officers, she agreed with what I was seeing. Only recalled one officer that was alert and aware. He would sit in certain places and was seeing what others were up to. In some rare times he even said it was time to leave due to what was shaping up. Never-the-less, this was her one example of a LEO sheepdog. Sad but true.

stoble

This is just a followup to the topic. Again, hear me clear, I like cops. Hell, I carry a gun so you know I support the good guys. My buddy is a retired cop, and our neighbor for 10 years was a cop plus his son was one.
Recently went to Arby's for lunch. Three cops came in to eat. I sat next to them but there was this low wall between us that you can see over as you eat. They sat where none of the guys could see me at all. I could see them and view all three of their backs. Just feels strange that we are focused on the environment and they are not paying attention. Of course these are just the cops I am around and your results may vary. Some product may have settled in box & picture shown for texture only, not actual size.

Argo84

Places where cops congregate are places where mischief is less likely to happen. If I'm a perp looking for a place to rob, it won't likely be a place where 3 cops are sitting eating lunch.

sheepdog

...but nowadays...it sure would be a good location for ambush...shame that we've come to that...but the four in Wash. state felt safe...were enjoying their food...and all hell broke loose... http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...in;contentBody
...anytime, anywhere...

jimbo1096

To chime in with my 2c, the LEOs today don't hold a candle with the old time cops I knew and worked with. There are exceptions, but overall they are much too complacent. I would bet money that over half don't even carry off duty. That never happened with us. We felt charged with the duty to protect the public, on or off duty. Even if it was just a 22mag derringer or a 25acp colt. I'm like Sheep Dog, I never just casually walk into a place without a pause and sweep of the room. A couple of weeks ago I entered a local c-store, no one in sight, no sounds or movement. I was on my cell dialing the local PD# when I found the store clerk in the back pulling stock. He never heard me come in and I scared the hell out of him. I told him how close he was to getting the local Sheriff to making a visit. I also don't sit with my back to the door at resturants, call me paranoid but I like to think of it as self-preservation. Most LEOs don't even do that.

Ornery

A long while back I think it was 60 minutes they asked some officers to go outside of New York area to see what type of weapons and ammo a person could buy. From what I seen and heard them say after their little trip they were more for the citizen to be unarmed.
I am sure that doesn't show all of the opinons of the leo's but to me it was enought that I was glad I don't live or plan to go to the big A.

sheepdog

...yer singin' one of my favorites!!!