deputy125

Well, I thought I would do a write-up on my recent experience with a pair of Crimson Trace Laser Grips.

The set of grips were and older style model LG-305's for the round but smiths. In the Crimson catalog, they were more closely related to the boot grip 105's as the current 305's are an extended grip. I put them on my s&W model 642 and tried them out at the range and for concealed carry for about 3 months.

The fit of the grip was not very good to my s&w 642-2 as there was some noticeable gap on the lower front of the frame. It did not affect function. The grips are also of hard plastic so there was no tacky feel to them and no "cling" to clothing. This set of grips does not have an "off/on" dedicated switch. There is an activation button off-center to the right of the front of the grip strap. Despite the off-center position of this pressure switch, activation was easy and positive gripping with the left hand or the right hand. No "death grip" was required for activation.......just a normal grip of the revolver.....relax your grip slightly and the laser goes off. I had no difficulty with the grip/gun combo on a good leather OWB holster, cheap IWB holster or with my pocket holster or holster-less pocket carry with a hanky.

The laser tube is high and right on this two piece grip. It was out of the way for both hands and did not interfere with one or two hand hold. The laser itself is recessed deeply into the grip and it shoots the laser beam out of a molded "tunnel" in the grip. I would guess this is to protect the laser lens from contact with things and to protect it from impact. But this recessed lens created an unanticipated problem that i will go into a bit later. The laser is powered by two 3 volt lithium batteries that are easily installed under the right grip panel. Batteries run around $5/pair from the dollar store and I still have not worn a set out with extended trials.

Shooting was conducted with some std pressure 38 spl 125 and 158 gr loads along with some 158 gr FBI loads. Despite the heavier loads, there was no shift of impact from the recoil forces. This laser is adjustable for windage and elevation from a tiny set of allen screws accessible with a tiny allen wrench (supplied) on the outside of the grip housing. Shooting comfort was no different than the difference in other boot grips........in other words, +p's are not fun while std pressure 38's are tolerable in my airweight with these grips.
Shooting was done from various distances from 3 yards to 25 yards. Shooting was also conducted in bright sunlight as well and low light conditions. I will admit that I had a preconceived notion about laser grips and entered this trial run perhaps a bit bias.....and as it turns out my opinion has changed somewhat. I am a big believer in point shooting for "up close and personal" and I still am after my laser trials..........but i also see the laser as creating offensive potential and being more of a benefit especially in low light conditions.

Daytime usage of the laser definitely affected the useful range. I conducted a series of tests on cloudless hot bright days and found the useful range outdoors was maxed out for quick pick-up/observation of the dot for any distance past 5 yards in bright sunlight. The dot was just too hard to quickly pick up and too much time was spent looking for the dot instead of engaging the target. The iron sights were clearly superior for me in this instance. And again, in bright daylight, my personal experiences showed no advantage of the laser vs iron sights for point and thrust shooting at 5 yards and closer. This again may be personal bias, but I am a big believer in point shooting for up close and personal and years of that doctrine are not going to be easily converted.

Where the laser really "shines" so to speak was precision and point of aim/point of impact in low light conditions. The stainless finish and non-adjustable sights on the smith model 642 are serviceable but not really designed for precision..........and with the "shortcuts" s&w has seemed to be taking lately, my poa/poi on my issue iron sights required some good ole' kentucky windage as the range extends to 15 yards and beyond. POA/POI was not a problem with the laser grips and no kentucky windage was required......which is a good thing if stress is involved. There was confidence in head shots out to 15 yards using the laser in lower light conditions. Matter of fact, groups where noticeably superior at all distances with the laser grips in pre-dawn and sundown light conditions involving aimed fire........that can be taken as the superiority of the laser or the cruddy issue sights...or a combination there-of.

While I consider the smith 642 as a "get off me now" role and weapon, I certainly see the benefits now of the laser grip to expand the capabilities of this snub and turn it into a better performer for any potential offensive role providing the conditions and lighting are conducive for the laser. We are required to qualify with any handgun we carry on or off duty including back-up weapons. I have not had a problem qualifying with the smith and iron sights............but the laser will definitely make life easier providing the lighting conditions permit its usage at those extended ranges.

I do not have access to an indoor range for actual gun trials involving indoor lighting. What I do have is dry-firing practice in my home with a hallway from the living room into a bedroom. What this provided for me was approx 13 yards of different light conditions in the day and ambient lighting at night. The laser in both lighting conditions was clearly superior at that range to the issue iron sights for indoor shooting. There was actually a reduction in engagement time with the laser as she was good to go as soon as the dot hit the target…which was dang quick…….it took more time to align the irons for dry-fire shot placement in these conditions.

I am not about to give up on iron sights and go 100% laser..........murphy's law comes to mind. But just like a hunting rifle nowadays, the optic has become more or less the primary sight and the irons (if even present) are in a back-up role.......and that is what i see happening here with the 5 shot snub. A superior adjustable sighting source that does not require special holsters and does not interfere with fit and function of the weapon and becomes a benefit to my tired old eyes..........a sighting system that is actually superior in low light conditions and indoor situations over the issue irons.....yet the irons are there and still trained with "just in case"……….and point shooting is still just that…point shooting for up close and personal for serious social occasions. Statistics bear out that the majority of shootings happen in the evening and late hours, so I do see the advantage of having a laser capable sighting system.

On the down side, there is one specific design feature of this crimson trace laser grip that I absolutely do not like and to not ruffle any feathers find fault with…………and that is the recessed tunnel for the laser. While no doubt this design provides protection to the laser unit and lens. Somehow, someway, during my trials, something got into that tunnel and on the lens of that laser. What it was I have not a clue. It could had been pocket lint, water, gun oil, or even powder residue……but nevertheless, something got in there. The end result was a severely diminished capability of the laser as the dot more or less turned into a variety of kaleidoscope objects. This definitely affected the pinpoint accuracy and reduced the effective range of the laser as the laser light “spider webbed”. My first ignorant thought was a problem with battery life so I bought new batteries………no change. At this point I started to get worried as this was borrowed equipment so I went to the Crimson Trace web site and checked out the FAQ section and discovered the probable cause and solution.

In the box that accompanied the grips were two very specialized tiny “Q” tips for cleaning the tunnel and the lens. The site advised to use one with alcohol and then follow up with the clean one and to keep repeating the procedure until the “dot” returned………matter of fact, the site specifically advised “Don’t get discouraged, it may take several times of alternating between the damp and dry swabs before you clean the lens completely.”

Well, it took two dedicated hours of back and forth swabbing, spinning, dunking, canned air, and more swabbing until that dot came back.

How this came to be……….I have not a clue. When it happened…….I have not a clue as the weapon was being carried daily as back-up and the occurrence was discovered during the 4th range trip. Quite aggravating to say the least…..potentially dangerous if I was to use this laser all the time as a crutch .....Murphy’s law again I guess, be it human error or equipment error, it would probably happen when I least expected it…..and it did at the range.
After this one experience, I would prefer the tunnel opening be covered with a clear lens so a very quick wipe would cure this problem. Sort of like what I observed on the laser model of the S&W bodyguard 380 ACP pistol……….which I hopefully will get some range time with sometime in the next month.

Anyways, the above was my experience with laser grips and a smith snub. Just personal experiences and observations that may or may not be experienced by others.

gunman42782

Thanks for the detailed report!

Machinist

Very comprehensive test and a great writeup. Thanks.

I agree that if I had to choose I would stay with fixed sights, but I do like the added capability of the laser and I like that it does not block the standard sights. The standard sights are faster in good light. I wanted the laser for when I could not use the standard sights because I did not have my glasses or the light was poor. The silver colored sights on the alloy and stainless 638 Bodyguard are just hard to see in some conditions for me.

deputy125

totally agree mac..............the laser was in every way superior to the issue irons in low light and used in-doors.............the advantages were huge.

To approach that level of sighting, a trip to a gunsmith would be in order for a re-do in the irons............probably to some sort of big express dot like these "XS" sights............ http://www.xssights.com/index.php?nID=s ... ID=handgun

but by the time you buy the sight and pay for required gunsmith instalation, you are hoping the job was done right for windage and evelation as you are still stuck with fixed sights that are now just a tad more snag prone.........and with my airweight, the front sight is not a pinned affair........it is actually molded into the barrel shroud so If instaliation is off, the whole shroud is ruined....

sure does make the laser look more attractive. Again, I freely admit i have a jaded view about lasers in a defensive role.......but my testing certainly revealed a very positive offensive capability for the snub to actually carry the day and expand its capabilities.........i am already thinking about a set possibly for the future...............but tape will be applied over the tunnel to protect the laser lens from debris and the tape will stay there rather like a spare tire............accessed when needed for something really offensive......after-all, people who use scoped rifles use lens covers to protect the optics of the scopes and remove them when needed............would seem to work here as well with the irons taking up the slack for the close in work........the laser can be deployed as needed............at least that is where my thoughts are taking me so far...........

Cruelshoes

Very helpful review. I had never thought about stuff getting in the way, only about electronic failure. I have laser sights several notches down on my wish list. They might have just moved down another notch or two.

deputy125

don't get me wrong..............the advantages in-doors and in low light were huge and can not be ignored................i certainly will not be forgetting the advantages anytime soon..............

but my line of thinking is using the laser as a secondary sighting system and not relying on it to begin with while carrying it and exposing it to the elements.........if there is time to deploy that laser, it will be worth every penny spent....it is that good.......if there is not time to deploy the laser, no harm/no foul as the irons are present and still trained with......in other words...irons are defensive.......laser is offensive. you have no time to think about defensive as you react to the threat............you do have time to think a bit when you go offense. But in my line of work, i frequently use the handgun in an offensive role......in other words, we practice engageing targets out to 25 yards for a reason because we are expected to carry the fight.....a laser in low light would be a great advantage.

decisions, decisions.............i ain't gonna rush into it........the advantages were as i said....huge........................but so was that failure of a dirty lens......

tape would cure that................the fact that crimson trace specifically mentioned the dirty tunnel/lens troubles in their FAQ section and provides the miniture "Q" tips indicates my problem was not an isolated infrequent one..............therefore a modification is in order to the opening of the sight tunnel or just an application of tape should do the trick.................

providing the tape does not come off and gum the works..............maybe i had better look at different holsters that protect that sight tunnel to keep trash out........did i mention that my head hurts now?

i see a need, i see an advantage.......then murphy's law visits and its a cold hard slap............

Bountyhunter

I have a set of those XS sights on my Glock and like them.

The lasers are good, as you said, for some things, but not for others. I don't know if I'll ever use them, but it's always a possibility.

Thanks for the write up. Gives us much to think about before purchasing.

tx gun runner

Thanks for that great report ...... The one I put on my Kahr CW45 and 1911 Randell , the fit and finish is perfect on both of them . In the day light I find the laser almost useless and slow to get on target . At night time they are super and far better that night sights . If you sight your laser at 10 or 25 yds and TRY to hit a target at longer yardage like 50 yds . " FORGET IT " That is the biggest drawback I found .

deputy125

i totally agree about the comparison to nite sights and to this day believe that nite-sights are the biggest most over-rated gimmick ever marketed to the public..........but that is for another time and story........

Machinist

I did wear those grips daily for ten years and never had a clog but I did use an IWB holster, never pocket carry.

I have one of the front mount lasers on my Kahr and it has picked up enough talcum powder to blur the dot but it took a while and it was easy to wipe off with a regular Q-tip or even blow off. It does not have the recessed tunnel like the Lasergrips. When it first happened I thought the batteries were getting low but once I saw what was happening I find it easy to prevent by blowing it off once in a while.

deputy125

though i can not swear to it, i am purty sure that since i pocket carry the vast, vast majority of the time then that is where the problem most likely happened.

a wiped down gun shoved into a pocket is going to deposit that oil to the interior pocket..........and as the gun further slides into the pocket, the grip tunnel is going to be contacting fabric that has just collected a tiny bit of oil from the surface of the barrel and cylinder that proceeded the grip.....by the mere action of sliding down the fabric..........

makes sense.......and a good lesson learned. most likely, a good pocket holster that covers that tunnel entrance would prevent such........and i got one..........just need to use it.

Some of my pants are rather "shallow" in the pocket so at times i pass on a holster...........think it might be safer to change pants...

sheepdog

...I bought a pair of Dockers jeans once made like pleated Dockers pants...deepest, roomiest front and rear pockets I've ever had...I could put a P97 in the front pocket and you wouldn't see it unless you were looking for it...they're expensive though...around $50 back then...most pockets are too small...to suit me...

XLCH

Deputy one thing you missed, or I did, is they make a good training tool for trigger control.
I can tell you first hand that Crimson Trace customer service is excellent. Had problems with a early set on my S&W 60,the laser trigger became erratic and they were way out of warranty, they fixed them no charge.
The laser stopped working on the Bull Dog, thought it was battery’s, it was not. These were out of warranty also, shipped to Crimson and they sent me back the later improved model at no charge.

tx gun runner

When I pocket carry [95%] , I like this type holster , keep gun angle in pocket correctly , rubber on outside so it stays in pocket and slipper stuff on inside so gun slides out easy , hides the gun silhouette and keeps gun clean and no oil in pocket for around $15 .