Machinist

I liked Gunrunners setup with his Kahr .45 so I got one of the Crimson Trace units for my Kahr CW 40. It was better than I expected. I had thought that it had screws digging into the trigger guard but it clamps around it. Much more secure. I had gotten a thousand rounds of the 135 grain Ranger load by Winchester. This was a milder load at 1,200 fps and I thought it might be nicer as practice ammo in the Kahr and possibly as duty loads for it. I took four loads today.

180 grain Winchester JHPs that I wanted to try in the Sig 239.

135 grain Ranger JHPs to use in both guns.

155 grain Ranger JHPs to try in the Sig. They are rated for the same velocity as the 135 grain loads.

135 grain Corbon JHPs. These are loaded to higher velocity than the Ranger loads and I thought they might be good carry loads for the Kahr.

All of the loads worked but the 135 Rangers just seemed the best balance for both guns. The heavier loads seemed to hang up slightly when the nose hit the feed ramp. It rarely caused a problem but the 135 grain Rangers were perfect every time in both guns. Part of the problem could have been a loose grip as I was tired but the 135 grain loads never hesitated so they inspire confidence. I think I will work some more with the 180 grain loads in the Sig but I will rely on the 135 grain for now in both guns and save the heavier loads for the Taurus which seems to handle them well and has the barrel length to get the most from them. I will have to look for some performance reviews on the Ranger ammo. It is nice to shoot and helped me do better.

The laser is very useful on the Kahr. It really helped me see when I was pulling shots. I found I did better if I pulled it on target as I pulled the trigger the way I would if shooting moving targets with a DA revolver. I was cutting many "X's and 10s this way, especially with the right hand, and I often felt it when I pulled the shots. I could work a DA pull slowly with a good revolver and get SA like results but the Kahr stacks a bit and this doesn't work for me. When I track moving targets I hold very tight and pull straight back by conditioning. It seems to be working. I started out doing better with the left hand, well grouped with almost all in the black, while the right hand pulled badly down and to the left. After several hundred rounds I was doing better with the right hand using DA techniques but my left hand was shaking and the hits were spreading, especially horizontally. I need practice and conditioning. If I could combine the early left hand groups with the later right hand groups I would be reasonably happy. More work at home and more range time. Better order more of the Ranger ammo. It is already up $20.00 a thousand from the last order. Wish I could order a lot more.

deputy125

the only 135 gr 40 loads i have ever tried were corbon...........and they sure seemed rather warm......

did not know and have not seen winchester ranger in that weight.

I might have to try them laser grips one of these days but the last set i tried on an airweight smith seemed to sting the hand more than std grips. The Ruger LCR with laser grip definately seemed to transfer more felt recoil with the crimson trace in place.

Still, in my mind, the laser grips have the potential to turn a point shooting up close snub into a viable "offensive" piece to get out there......and that would seem in my profession to come in handy. Shot a Texas Star with a laser grip LCR at 15 yards and it was a piece of cake compared to iron sights with the laser off....

Next time i see ya mac, i'll drop off a box of hornady 180 gr CQ TAP and let ya give it a whirl.......

how are point shooting drills with that kahr?

Machinist

The 135 grain Ranger load is rated for about 1,200 fps, about 100 to 150 fps less than the Corbon and you can feel it, though even the Corbon kick less than the 180 grain loads. ICE and Border Patrol went with the Ranger load, they ordered something like 200 million rounds over 5 years. They are for training and carry in compact pistols for concealed carry and training new officers as HLS ramps up. Federal brought out a matching load, I assume to get the same contract. The tests I have seen on that ammo look good with the bullet opening up well. I hope someone does some good tests on this load or they compile some police statistics as they get data. It is just a little hotter than the better 9mms but they are hotter and they feel good in the very light gun.

Because it's an indoor range and rather restricted I always use the sights but the Kahr points well for me, much better than the Glock or Walther PPS, which pointed high.

I meant to post pictures of the Kahr. This is one of their units for polymer framed guns. It does not effect the grip other than adding the actuator button under the trigger guard.

Machinist

I never pocket carry, always an IWB holster. With the laser and this ammo I feel really good about the Kahr. It hides and carries very well, but I feel much better armed than with any J frame snub nosed revolver. A K frame is a different story but I can't hide one most of the time and they are heavier to carry. The Kahr gives me much better stopping power, better fire power, and better accuracy than I can get from a snub. I still need more trigger time to improve my accuracy as it is not what I want but I feel much better with this setup.
The Ranger load will allow more practice without the pain to my hands I was getting from the 180 grain loads. I will save those for the heavier guns.

sheepdog

...so, Mac...which trigger do you find easier to hit well with...the Sig 239 in double action or the Kahr??? the guns are about the same size, right???

Machinist

The Sig is wider and bulkier, somewhat bigger. The DA trigger on the Sig is sweet. It is smooth and even all the way through. It is much better than the Kahr. The Kahr precocks like a Glock so the trigger is lighter but it stacks at the end and I find this harder to work with, especially given the very light weight. The Sig trigger is heavier but is still lighter than a revolver and has full second strike capability. If the Kahr had the Sigs DA trigger I would LOVE it! I think the DAK DAO trigger from Sig may be even lighter, Deputy would know, but the regular DA trigger on the Sig would be fine as DAO. I like the SA capability but I would buy and like the Sig if it was DAO with the pull it has.

The Kahr is short and light and I know many people do very well with it. I just need more work. At close quarters, ten yards, I feel confident with it. The Kahr is quite a piece of work, very light, narrow, and smooth sided. It hides as well as the alloy J frame did for me and is only a little less comfortable. It is easy to carry all day every day and offers a lot of protection. It does not move in my hand making fast controlled shots easy. It does not offer the solid feel and accuracy the Sig does but I see the Sig like a flatter K frame while the Kahr is an alternative for the J frame.

I need to get my butt to the range more often. It shows.

Where I could carry it the Sig is better. It only holds one more in the magazine but it can make better use of them. I can make faster hits with better accuracy with the Sig. The Kahr's advantage is being there when the Sig can't.

sheepdog

...reason I 'm asking...my wife got her permit packet mailed off...qualified 240 of 250 with the Glock 19, and I don't think she'll be liking the revolver...may have her buy a 239, but in 9mm...don't think she needs a real short trigger...that was the first time she's ever handled a handgun...total mind shift in the last 90 days!!! She's got the money for what she wants...we'll see...I think Kahr might be too light and kick her a bit...

Machinist

You're welcome to bring her here to handle both. The lasers make it easy to see movement if she's pulling it. The Lasergrips on the Sig make the grip a bit bigger but I can replace the standard grips for comparison. My wife could shoot the Sig but I would not have her try the Kahr in .40, it has some snap. The steel frame Kahrs would probably be much easier to handle but they cost like the Sig.

I had the short trigger on my 9mm Sig but I did not like it. It tended to pinch and it was not needed with the single stack 239. I have trouble with double stack DA autos but the Sig 239 with standard trigger fits me very well. The stock grips are actually a bit cramped for me so the Lasergrips are great. You are welcome to take them to the range if she wants to shoot them. The Ranger loads are quite civilized.

sheepdog

...thanks for the hospitality but we ain't travelin' together...yet...we ARE making a lot of progress...hard times tend to bring us to ground, don't they!!! we'll get there...if she does go semiauto...I don't think there's another more reliable than the 239, and without the laser grips, compact enough...I think the P95 is bigger both ways...I have yet to squeeze a DAK trigger...sounds like it's better'n the regular DA...we'll see...

tx gun runner

Good looking gun ... I haven't shot a gun since I've been here in Tx outside of my CCW class .

Cruelshoes

Wow, didn't you have a backyard range before you changed from N to X?

tx gun runner

Yes.... My health will not let me take of the 13 acres anymore , plus I can't hold a gun up right now . Both shoulders are out

Cruelshoes

Bummer. I knew that your shoulders gave you grief sometimes. Didn't know it was that bad. Sorry to to hear it.