Et2ss

No the BATFE ruled that semi auto firearms must fire from a closed bolt. These have been modified to do so

You can see the high rate of fire in this (and next) part of "Talvisota" or english translation "The Winter War"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwOmo...eature=related

I would suggest if any one has the time to watch the whole film. Shows the actions of one home guard unit who bravely fought the hordes of Bolsheviks when attacked when Russia tried to annex Finnland pre- WWII

sheepdog

...watched it but didn't catch this gun...got too involved in the action...I gotta watch this whole thing...is it on DVD or how....

Machinist

Thank you, Et2ss.

Firing from a closed bolt would make it much more interesting as a carbine but that is a lot of new parts and a lot of weight for a 9mm carbine. Sounds like fun to play with but not a practical carbine.

sheepdog

...I guess the weight was to control full auto...or just the quality materials used...the best SA carbine I've seen in modern times was the Marlin Camp carbine...had one in 9mm----light, easy to swing, and built solid...never did have a .45...they had a few problems....

Machinist

That is more what a 9mm carbine should be, light and handy.

Machined steel parts do get heavy and it is useful in a full auto though 11 lbs plus empty is a bit much. The Thompson was also heavy and for the same reason. I do like those wooden stocks on SMGs.

deputy125

i know a lot of folks who love their camp carbines.......................i've tried one (45) and could not stand it. it was NOT left had friendly for this feller as i was getting blow-back in my face from it. Might had been unique to just me and that paticular gun?...... i don't know.

but as a lefty, that stood out in my mind along with the same problems with a stevens 22 auto and a winchester 22 auto..................and sadly my issue M16A1 is the same way except it kicks brass into my face along with blow-back i guess..........had to put a plastic guard on it to correct the problem.

Bountyhunter

I run into the same problems, Deputy. I'm a righty, but left eye dominant and shoot rifles lefty.

Machinist

I don't envy you. I can shoot handguns with either hand and use the eye to match the hand with no trouble, but shooting a rifle left handed would totally bite. I can't even hold it so it would feel right.

Bountyhunter

It took me a while. I had to train myself to hold the rifle as a lefty and shoot it. Now I'm very glad I did. My shooting improved greatly once I did.

I too shoot a pistol with either hand, but shoot better with my right one.

sheepdog

...right eye dominant...I shoot only from right shoulder on long guns...I can see how bad that'd be for a left-shoulder shooter...wonder if that's why Rem on their 552 and I think 514 had deflection shields....

Et2ss

Yes it is available on DVD but not cheap to find. The whole picture is up on Youtube in 19 parts
A really good look into the heroics of the Finnish Civil Guard when faced with insurmountable odds.

Snuffy

If you fired the 50 cal or M60 then you have fired a gun with an open bolt.

sheepdog

...just the M60 but didn't remember it being open bolt...about 50 rds from the hip in ITR...my boys have fired the 50...

sheepdog

seems dirt and debris could get in there more...why'd they design 'em that way???

Machinist

Full auto weapons get hot quickly. When you stop shooting, a chambered round will soon cook off. An open bolt system does not chamber a round when you stop shooting. This also allows air to cool the chamber and barrel. Some automatic rifles fire open bolt on full auto and closed bolt on semi-auto for more accuracy. I don't know if the extra complexity was found worthwhile.

Another advantage of open bolt on blowback weapons is that you have the forward momentum of the heavy bolt to overcome before the bolt starts to move backward. This allows a somewhat lighter bolt than if only static inertia is holding the pressure or it slows the cyclic rate.

sheepdog

...now that makes sense...for the first time, I really get it!!! I'm a bit slow....but that's a good thing!!!

Snuffy

Thanks Mac for your help pal.