.38 POI from a .357 revolver

bearcatter · 03-11-2017, 07:02 AM

Online ballistic discussions put this all over the place, so I thought I'd get 2 cents worth of the professors here?

I'm switching from a .357 LCR to a .357 SP-101. I don't think 3/8" more barrel will matter much; 8 ounces more weight will help recovery.

With the LCR I shot .38s; 130gr FMJ for practice, and 125 HP for serious. I got the same good POI at ten yards using a 12 o'clock hold for both. My HP is Hornady XTP, with listed MV above standard, but not quite +P. I understand I could use a 6 o'clock hold with heavier bullets, but with a snub I'm going for extra speed and less recoil. Factory figures are usually from a six inch, and I know a snub will cost me at least 100 fps.

I understand heavier bullets being slower, but not them shooting higher.

As to bullet drop difference, I understand there is little difference between .38 and .357 at 10 yards, but at 20 or more I'd have to aim about 2 inches higher with .38s, or file the front sight.

Okay Teach, how'd I do? At least a C? Anything you can add to get me an A?

north country gal · 03-11-2017, 08:36 AM

You're experience matches what I've seen many times, so you did well. I've done a lot of shooting with snubbies, so here's my take.

You can generally predict heavier bullets to print higher because they stay in the barrel longer as the gun recoils up in these snubbies, the lighter the gun, the greater the difference. However, as with all generalizations, there are enough exceptions that I never assume it. Way too many variables with all the different kinds of ammo out there, so in any gun that I plan to carry, I always check to see what specific ammo does. Have actually had instances where a heavier bullet in Brand X of ammo shot to the same POI as a lighter bullet in Brand Y of ammo.

Even more perplexing and mysterious in these light snubbies is the change in windage POI I sometimes experience with certain brands and load of ammo. This may in part be a matter of the grip I'm using because in light snub nose revolvers, your grip has a very definite effect on POI. If Brand X ammo has a sharper, snappier recoil than Brand Y with a longer recoil pulse, you can get windage changes from the differences in the way the gun recoils in the hand. Again, all the more reason not to predict but to get out and shoot the gun with specific ammo to see what you get.

bearcatter · 03-11-2017, 08:46 AM

Thanks NCG. Sounds like I did my reading research pretty well, since I only put about 300 rounds through the LCR. My only other centerfire snub was a Speed Six, many moons ago. I'll stick with my LCR ammo choices for now, and see what I get with the SP. I'm expecting it to perform the same.

.

Terry_P · 03-11-2017, 01:42 PM

My 158 gr 357 load shot low at 25 yards with my SP so I took a little off the front sight and brought it up some. It is still shooting a little low but if I hold top of the bull it is pretty close. The 38 Spl +P Buffalo Bores are close to my 357 handloads as the 158 gr are chronying 1,037 FPS. When I shot 180 gr 357 handloads they were nicely centered. Any shooting I do with a snub at 25 yards I take a close enough approach as my old eyes will abandon me after a fashion even shooting from bags.

tx gun runner · 03-12-2017, 12:20 AM

Here is the way I shoot my CCW guns so there is no high or low or left or right in my opinion . I don't care if is which gun it is . 38 or 357 , revolvers or bottom feeder . In real gun fight if you wait for a super sight picture BANG your dead if you shoot against me or a shooter like in video .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4D2q6y0PMs

Machinist · 03-12-2017, 10:07 AM

While there are generalities, especially with longer barrels, it does require actual shooting to see. Bullet weight, gun weight, and velocity all effect the height of the POI, but also the height of the bore over the hand. An L frame is noticeably higher than a K frame for example, and the greater leverage will make a difference in felt recoil and POI. I suspect the SP is higher than the LCR but I don't know this. You would be in a better position to compare.

As NCG said, you can see side shifts as well. I shattered the right arm bone above the elbow and it healed a bit crooked and the elbow does not lock, so when holding a gun in my right hand my arm comes in from the right side a bit instead of from behind. When shooting heavy .44 Spec. loads in a 7 1/2" Super Blackhawk it threw about a foot to the left compared to my left hand or both hands when shooting at 25 yards. This is just one of the reasons I generally switched to shorter barrels and lighter, faster bullets.

bearcatter · 03-13-2017, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machinist

While there are generalities, especially with longer barrels, it does require actual shooting to see. Bullet weight, gun weight, and velocity all effect the height of the POI, but also the height of the bore over the hand. An L frame is noticeably higher than a K frame for example, and the greater leverage will make a difference in felt recoil and POI. I suspect the SP is higher than the LCR but I don't know this. You would be in a better position to compare.
.

Bore over hand height is virtually identical between LCR and SP, and they can share most holsters. With factory grips, the SP could to some degree be a bit lower, depending on how one positions their hand. That's because the factory SP grip does not fill in behind the trigger guard, and the two LCR grips do.

bearcatter · 03-13-2017, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tx gun runner

. In real gun fight if you wait for a super sight picture BANG your dead if you shoot against me or a shooter like in video .

You still want to know what your sights do to POI, for when you do use them......

KimberLover · 03-15-2017, 10:44 AM

Got to add my 2 cents:
I posted a few words about a Ruger SP 101 4 "that I could not get to shoot reloads. I was all over the target.
I took the same reloaded ammo and shot it in a S&W 60-14 with a 2 1/8" barrel and tore the center out of a target.
The Ruger is on consignment at the LGS.

03-11-2017, 07:02 AM	#1
bearcatter Senior Member Joined: Aug 2015 From: Virginia Posts: 3,857	.38 POI from a .357 revolver Online ballistic discussions put this all over the place, so I thought I'd get 2 cents worth of the professors here? I'm switching from a .357 LCR to a .357 SP-101. I don't think 3/8" more barrel will matter much; 8 ounces more weight will help recovery. With the LCR I shot .38s; 130gr FMJ for practice, and 125 HP for serious. I got the same good POI at ten yards using a 12 o'clock hold for both. My HP is Hornady XTP, with listed MV above standard, but not quite +P. I understand I could use a 6 o'clock hold with heavier bullets, but with a snub I'm going for extra speed and less recoil. Factory figures are usually from a six inch, and I know a snub will cost me at least 100 fps. I understand heavier bullets being slower, but not them shooting higher. As to bullet drop difference, I understand there is little difference between .38 and .357 at 10 yards, but at 20 or more I'd have to aim about 2 inches higher with .38s, or file the front sight. Okay Teach, how'd I do? At least a C? Anything you can add to get me an A?

03-11-2017, 08:46 AM	#3
bearcatter Senior Member Joined: Aug 2015 From: Virginia Posts: 3,857	Thanks NCG. Sounds like I did my reading research pretty well, since I only put about 300 rounds through the LCR. My only other centerfire snub was a Speed Six, many moons ago. I'll stick with my LCR ammo choices for now, and see what I get with the SP. I'm expecting it to perform the same. . Last edited by bearcatter; 03-11-2017 at 08:56 AM. Reason: round count

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.38 POI from a .357 revolver

does 357 and 38 poi

shooting at 100 yards

03-11-2017, 08:36 AM	#2
north country gal Senior Member Joined: Jan 2013 From: northern wisconsin Posts: 5,997	You're experience matches what I've seen many times, so you did well. I've done a lot of shooting with snubbies, so here's my take. You can generally predict heavier bullets to print higher because they stay in the barrel longer as the gun recoils up in these snubbies, the lighter the gun, the greater the difference. However, as with all generalizations, there are enough exceptions that I never assume it. Way too many variables with all the different kinds of ammo out there, so in any gun that I plan to carry, I always check to see what specific ammo does. Have actually had instances where a heavier bullet in Brand X of ammo shot to the same POI as a lighter bullet in Brand Y of ammo. Even more perplexing and mysterious in these light snubbies is the change in windage POI I sometimes experience with certain brands and load of ammo. This may in part be a matter of the grip I'm using because in light snub nose revolvers, your grip has a very definite effect on POI. If Brand X ammo has a sharper, snappier recoil than Brand Y with a longer recoil pulse, you can get windage changes from the differences in the way the gun recoils in the hand. Again, all the more reason not to predict but to get out and shoot the gun with specific ammo to see what you get.

03-11-2017, 01:42 PM	#4
Terry_P Super Moderator Joined: Apr 2008 From: Where it's warm Posts: 10,356	My 158 gr 357 load shot low at 25 yards with my SP so I took a little off the front sight and brought it up some. It is still shooting a little low but if I hold top of the bull it is pretty close. The 38 Spl +P Buffalo Bores are close to my 357 handloads as the 158 gr are chronying 1,037 FPS. When I shot 180 gr 357 handloads they were nicely centered. Any shooting I do with a snub at 25 yards I take a close enough approach as my old eyes will abandon me after a fashion even shooting from bags.

03-12-2017, 12:20 AM	#5
tx gun runner Senior Member Joined: Jun 2008 From: Ft Hood , Tx area Posts: 11,626	Here is the way I shoot my CCW guns so there is no high or low or left or right in my opinion . I don't care if is which gun it is . 38 or 357 , revolvers or bottom feeder . In real gun fight if you wait for a super sight picture BANG your dead if you shoot against me or a shooter like in video . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4D2q6y0PMs

03-12-2017, 10:07 AM	#6
Machinist Senior Member Joined: Feb 2009 From: McKinney, TX Posts: 8,994	While there are generalities, especially with longer barrels, it does require actual shooting to see. Bullet weight, gun weight, and velocity all effect the height of the POI, but also the height of the bore over the hand. An L frame is noticeably higher than a K frame for example, and the greater leverage will make a difference in felt recoil and POI. I suspect the SP is higher than the LCR but I don't know this. You would be in a better position to compare. As NCG said, you can see side shifts as well. I shattered the right arm bone above the elbow and it healed a bit crooked and the elbow does not lock, so when holding a gun in my right hand my arm comes in from the right side a bit instead of from behind. When shooting heavy .44 Spec. loads in a 7 1/2" Super Blackhawk it threw about a foot to the left compared to my left hand or both hands when shooting at 25 yards. This is just one of the reasons I generally switched to shorter barrels and lighter, faster bullets.

03-15-2017, 10:44 AM	#9
KimberLover Senior Member Joined: Sep 2013 From: Winston Salem, NC Posts: 1,142	Got to add my 2 cents: I posted a few words about a Ruger SP 101 4 "that I could not get to shoot reloads. I was all over the target. I took the same reloaded ammo and shot it in a S&W 60-14 with a 2 1/8" barrel and tore the center out of a target. The Ruger is on consignment at the LGS.