A lever with a prominent pistol grip (second part)

Bulldogun · 12-12-2016, 07:55 AM

Hi folks,

Some of you have already polled in part one…
…and thank you for the only one who said he would consider to try it!

Here is the second part. My idea was to put a prominent pistol grip on a lever. So I made several model out of it. It was really funny to create them and now I am happy to shoot them.

What do you think of them? Would you like to try something different?
Just say what you feel, bad or good, and please do not forget to poll!

Bulldogun.

44s Rock · 12-12-2016, 08:08 AM

I'm a traditionalist, so A for me.

bearcatter · 12-12-2016, 08:24 AM

A for me. Honestly, C is not too bad, but not better than A.

north country gal · 12-12-2016, 08:34 AM

I respect what you are doing and support everyone's right to their own tastes in guns, but for me, I see no point in trying to convert a lever gun into an AR style gun. If you want that kind of gun, why not just buy an AR in the first place? Not being critical, here, just curious. Personally, one of the reasons I buy traditional lever guns is because they are as far from an AR/black gun as it gets. Best of luck on your project, though. Very interesting.

Machinist · 12-12-2016, 09:02 AM

My problem with the design is the forward end of the lever travel. In a conventional configuration the lever goes to a vertical position which is easy to do but having to rotate it that far forward when starting at nearly a vertical position does not allow the hand to remain in proper position, or at least it seems so as I have not used it. The reason for a pistol grip and straight stock is to give less muzzle rise and improve accuracy of rapid semiauto or automatic fire. It does not seem to make sense on a gun requiring manual working of the action which give ample time to recover from recoil with medium powered cartridges. Any improvement in speed of recovery from recoil would seem to be more than offset by the need to push the lever so far forward. This is why you never see military bolt action rifles with pistol grip stocks.

As a toy for amusement have at it, but I doubt there is any practical aspect to recommend it. I would defer to those with more rifle experience.

Bulldogun · 12-12-2016, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by north country gal

I respect what you are doing and support everyone's right to their own tastes in guns, but for me, I see no point in trying to convert a lever gun into an AR style gun. If you want that kind of gun, why not just buy an AR in the first place? Not being critical, here, just curious. Personally, one of the reasons I buy traditional lever guns is because they are as far from an AR/black gun as it gets. Best of luck on your project, though. Very interesting.

I do not know.

I think that AR are impressive tools, but the levers has their own advantages too. Light, handy, powerful, cheap, reliable, politically correct, fast to reload…

I love both. Levers and semi-auto. Shooting from one to another is very different. But until now you could not find any lever with a prominent pistol grip, nor a collapsible and/ or folding stock.

Now it is possible…

Terry_P · 12-12-2016, 10:59 AM

The politically correct part never concerned me when it came to firearms. I prefer bolt action rifles with scopes for hunting. That is typically what I use long guns for. I have owned lever actions and still do but when I reach for a rifle it is usually a bolt.

To the question you asked I am more traditional and voted A. If you like one of the other stocks then have at it and enjoy this great sport of shooting.

Bulldogun · 12-12-2016, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machinist

My problem with the design is the forward end of the lever travel. In a conventional configuration the lever goes to a vertical position which is easy to do but having to rotate it that far forward when starting at nearly a vertical position does not allow the hand to remain in proper position, or at least it seems so as I have not used it. The reason for a pistol grip and straight stock is to give less muzzle rise and improve accuracy of rapid semiauto or automatic fire. It does not seem to make sense on a gun requiring manual working of the action which give ample time to recover from recoil with medium powered cartridges. Any improvement in speed of recovery from recoil would seem to be more than offset by the need to push the lever so far forward. This is why you never see military bolt action rifles with pistol grip stocks.

As a toy for amusement have at it, but I doubt there is any practical aspect to recommend it. I would defer to those with more rifle experience.

Certainly, it is no match for a semi - auto.
A toy for amusement? You 've got me: that is generally the way I use my guns!...

303Lithgow · 12-12-2016, 12:58 PM

You provide choice (d) and I would shoot it. But I wouldn't buy it.

303Lithgow · 12-12-2016, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machinist

My problem with the design is the forward end of the lever travel. In a conventional configuration the lever goes to a vertical position which is easy to do but having to rotate it that far forward when starting at nearly a vertical position does not allow the hand to remain in proper position, or at least it seems so as I have not used it. The reason for a pistol grip and straight stock is to give less muzzle rise and improve accuracy of rapid semiauto or automatic fire. It does not seem to make sense on a gun requiring manual working of the action which give ample time to recover from recoil with medium powered cartridges. Any improvement in speed of recovery from recoil would seem to be more than offset by the need to push the lever so far forward. This is why you never see military bolt action rifles with pistol grip stocks.

As a toy for amusement have at it, but I doubt there is any practical aspect to recommend it. I would defer to those with more rifle experience.

I'm thinking all I would use is the middle finger to work the action so it wouldn't really make the stroke longer.

Machinist · 12-12-2016, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bulldogun

Certainly, it is no match for a semi - auto.
A toy for amusement? You 've got me: that is generally the way I use my guns!...

For the most part, so do..

The exception would be the guns I keep for protection but I don't need the dozens I have for that.

Machinist · 12-12-2016, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 303Lithgow

I'm thinking all I would use is the middle finger to work the action so it wouldn't really make the stroke longer.

Besides the longer stroke it is the angle and the leverage. At full stroke the lever pointing down gives you maximum leverage to eject and reverse direction. It seems that the lower lever would be moving up at full stroke, which would give less leverage and control at the most critical time, an up and down motion instead of a back and forth movement. Much weaker.

north country gal · 12-12-2016, 02:28 PM

Actually, if you wanted to convert a traditional gun into a tactical setup, a pump action gun would make a better choice. An old Remington pump like a 760 or 7600 in 308 or similar would make a very good tactical gun with those stock setups. Would be not only faster to operate, but more efficient, too.

bearcatter · 12-12-2016, 04:36 PM

Kinda loses me anyway, since I'm a handgun guy. Only rifles I've ever owned are a past and present 10/22. I think I only have them because "everyone should have at least one rifle"; so I do.

Bulldogun · 12-13-2016, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 303Lithgow

You provide choice (d) and I would shoot it. But I wouldn't buy it.

Good.
The idea was to know if you would consider a try, if the gun was in front of you.
Buying is something very different.

Bulldogun · 12-13-2016, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by north country gal

Actually, if you wanted to convert a traditional gun into a tactical setup, a pump action gun would make a better choice. An old Remington pump like a 760 or 7600 in 308 or similar would make a very good tactical gun with those stock setups. Would be not only faster to operate, but more efficient, too.

That is a very good remark.

What it looks like: Pump rifle + tactical:
- On a Remington 7515: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pko20zaUjKo
- On an AR15: https://troydefense.com/pumpactionrifle/

Pump vs lever, specifications (according to internet: to be checked and discussed):
- Mossberg 464: Weight 6.7 lbs, OAL: 38"5 cartridges: 6+1
- Remington 7600: Weight 7.5 lbs, OAL: 42"6 cartridges: 4+1

Everything depends on what you are seeking for:
- I think the lever's design is a compact one. Lighter, shorter, the tubular magazine is very “discreet” under the barrel. Easy to handle.
- But the Remington 7600 is stronger, faster and more accurate…

View Poll Results: Which ones would you consider to try (several answers possible)?
Model (a)	8	72.73%
Model (b)	0	0%
Model (c)	0	0%
Model (d)	2	18.18%
None of them	1	9.09%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

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12-12-2016, 08:08 AM	#2
44s Rock Senior Member Joined: Jan 2009 From: Far Western WA. Posts: 10,973	I'm a traditionalist, so A for me.

12-12-2016, 08:24 AM	#3
bearcatter Senior Member Joined: Aug 2015 From: Virginia Posts: 4,021	A for me. Honestly, C is not too bad, but not better than A.

12-12-2016, 08:34 AM	#4
north country gal Senior Member Joined: Jan 2013 From: northern wisconsin Posts: 6,001	I respect what you are doing and support everyone's right to their own tastes in guns, but for me, I see no point in trying to convert a lever gun into an AR style gun. If you want that kind of gun, why not just buy an AR in the first place? Not being critical, here, just curious. Personally, one of the reasons I buy traditional lever guns is because they are as far from an AR/black gun as it gets. Best of luck on your project, though. Very interesting.

12-12-2016, 09:02 AM	#5
Machinist Senior Member Joined: Feb 2009 From: McKinney, TX Posts: 8,994	My problem with the design is the forward end of the lever travel. In a conventional configuration the lever goes to a vertical position which is easy to do but having to rotate it that far forward when starting at nearly a vertical position does not allow the hand to remain in proper position, or at least it seems so as I have not used it. The reason for a pistol grip and straight stock is to give less muzzle rise and improve accuracy of rapid semiauto or automatic fire. It does not seem to make sense on a gun requiring manual working of the action which give ample time to recover from recoil with medium powered cartridges. Any improvement in speed of recovery from recoil would seem to be more than offset by the need to push the lever so far forward. This is why you never see military bolt action rifles with pistol grip stocks. As a toy for amusement have at it, but I doubt there is any practical aspect to recommend it. I would defer to those with more rifle experience.

12-12-2016, 10:59 AM	#7
Terry_P Super Moderator Joined: Apr 2008 From: Where it's warm Posts: 10,626	The politically correct part never concerned me when it came to firearms. I prefer bolt action rifles with scopes for hunting. That is typically what I use long guns for. I have owned lever actions and still do but when I reach for a rifle it is usually a bolt. To the question you asked I am more traditional and voted A. If you like one of the other stocks then have at it and enjoy this great sport of shooting.

12-12-2016, 12:58 PM	#9
303Lithgow Senior Member Joined: Jan 2012 From: Washington State Posts: 16,373	You provide choice (d) and I would shoot it. But I wouldn't buy it.

12-12-2016, 02:28 PM	#13
north country gal Senior Member Joined: Jan 2013 From: northern wisconsin Posts: 6,001	Actually, if you wanted to convert a traditional gun into a tactical setup, a pump action gun would make a better choice. An old Remington pump like a 760 or 7600 in 308 or similar would make a very good tactical gun with those stock setups. Would be not only faster to operate, but more efficient, too.

12-12-2016, 04:36 PM	#14
bearcatter Senior Member Joined: Aug 2015 From: Virginia Posts: 4,021	Kinda loses me anyway, since I'm a handgun guy. Only rifles I've ever owned are a past and present 10/22. I think I only have them because "everyone should have at least one rifle"; so I do.