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This is a discussion on RWS rifle within the Rifles forums, part of the Long Gun Forum category; I shot this today to show you why I do not adj sights to shoot for score but to shoot for group size . All ...


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Old 03-22-2014, 02:27 PM   #1
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RWS rifle

I shot this today to show you why I do not adj sights to shoot for score but to shoot for group size . All I did was to shoot 2 different pellets and you can see the different POI . I also shot these 2 targets without my glasses on . I pull the trigger when the blur of target become sharp and clear , no lining up anything . These are shot on bench using a spring gun which is hard to tame the recoil and get a good group .



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Old 03-22-2014, 02:44 PM   #2
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I've chased a wondering zero before and found its best to not change until the third day of shooting off. I shot the Avanti Legend 853 for a few times in the backyard today. Man that thing is sweeeeeeet.
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Old 03-22-2014, 03:44 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by 303Lithgow View Post
I've chased a wondering zero before and found its best to not change until the third day of shooting off. I shot the Avanti Legend 853 for a few times in the backyard today. Man that thing is sweeeeeeet.
If I sold this one I would get the 853 they are more forgive then a spring gun . Can't wait to see your targets ...............
The rear peep is too far forward for my liking on my gun and handicap me in shooting offhand

Last edited by tx gun runner; 03-22-2014 at 03:53 PM.
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Old 03-22-2014, 03:50 PM   #4
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I shot a few pellets through it and then a patch. I have some hunting pellets and some wadcutters. Guess the cutters would be the best for target work.
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Old 03-22-2014, 04:09 PM   #5
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What you're doing is a very necessary step, of course - finding the right pellet - and, of course, until you do, sight adjustment is secondary. Once I find the right pellet for an individual gun, though, I enjoy taking it to the next step, shooting for score and that means very precise sight adjustments and it also means that I have to check the sights prior to each and every shooting session, which I do with the air guns. Yes, our eyes can change from day to day and to accommodate that, you do need to check your sights on a regular basis when shooting for score. Then, too, changes in atmospheric pressure, humidity and so on can also necessitate a check of your sights. Changing ammo/pellet for sure means a change of sights. Heck, I'm not telling you anything you don't know, here, TX. Your a champion shooter with the awards to show for it. I am not in your class and I freely admit it.

I do get a little OCD about my sight adjustments, though. Goes back to my first days in junior rifle club. I remember the first time I shot a superb, one hole group of 5 shots at 50 feet with the peep sight equipped 22 target rifles we were using. I was in eighth grade. Four of the shots were in the 10 ring, but, because the whole group was slightly to the left, one was in the 9 ring. Instead of praising me for my excellent score of 49, my coach chewed me out, but good, for not bothering to check my sight in prior to shooting in the match, which I had neglected to do. Had I followed proper procedure and double checked sight in on my rifle, I could have been the youngest shooter in the club to ever score a possible - a perfect score of 50. I'll never forget that near miss and the scolding I received. I guess it's one more reason I was so thrilled to shoot my first 50 with my air pistol this week. I've shot small groups all winter long and, yes, it's a thrill, but, for me, shooting a tiny group and THEN putting that it EXACTLY where you want it is the ultimate target shooting thrill. This is especially true with air guns, because they can be so fussy as to hold and so on, as you well know.

Now, please, don't anyone take this as me preaching. It's all the game I play against myself. It's what makes it fun for me. You do what works for you.

By the way, all my shooting, this winter, with the two target pistols was with the same model of pellet, the excellent RWS R10. Have a couple bricks of them (5000 to a brick).

Last edited by north country gal; 03-22-2014 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 03-22-2014, 04:26 PM   #6
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I think it all depends on what your goal is when talking about adjusting sights. And also how easy they are to adjust. If it takes a screwdriver and brass hammer I tend to leave them alone. But if its just a quick turn of a knob I'll make the change.

Looking back at my range report with the Mare's Leg you will notice the groups were moving around. I think it was because I wasn't getting the same cheek weld. In that case instead of adjusting the sights I tried to adjust my cheek weld back to where it should be. But that firearm is for working on critters.
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Old 03-22-2014, 04:31 PM   #7
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the excellent RWS R10.
Of all the high dollar pellets the RWS R 10 shoot the best in all my guns . I have 3,000 R10 pellets and the Daisy flat nose shoot a close 2nd at 1/2 the price .
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Old 03-22-2014, 04:46 PM   #8
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The only shooting I do for traditional competition type scoring is our indoor air pistol shooting. In our backyard air gun range, we shoot mostly spinner targets and it's either hit or miss, there. Just too darn hard to go out and posts targets all the time in the tangled mess of bog ground where our range is located. Walking is treacherous in that stuff. Way too much work to be changing targets out all the time.

We don't usually shoot for score in our cartridge gun shooting, either, even 22 LR. Just not too practical to be hoofing it back and forth all the time out to 50 yards to change out targets and, of course,100 and 200 is even worse. For powder gun shooting at our local range, we usually just shoot at dots to see how many we can get in a dot and we also shoot for group size.
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Old 03-22-2014, 04:52 PM   #9
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I'm not sure what pellets they use but the test target that came with the 853 had touching holes. More like one oblong hole. The best group I've gotten is about 3/4 inch. Do I measure them center to center or farthest width?
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Old 03-22-2014, 04:55 PM   #10
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The only shooting I do for traditional competition type scoring is our indoor air pistol shooting. In our backyard air gun range, we shoot mostly spinner targets and it's either hit or miss, there. Just too darn hard to go out and posts targets all the time in the tangled mess of bog ground where our range is located. Walking is treacherous in that stuff. Way too much work to be changing targets out all the time.

We don't usually shoot for score in our cartridge gun shooting, either, even 22 LR. Just not too practical to be hoofing it back and forth all the time out to 50 yards to change out targets and, of course,100 and 200 is even worse. For powder gun shooting at our local range, we usually just shoot at dots to see how many we can get in a dot and we also shoot for group size.
I like walking out to check on targets. If I'm the only one I will sometimes do it just to walk around. I'll even walk out when I can see it in the scope.
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Old 03-22-2014, 06:18 PM   #11
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I'm not sure what pellets they use but the test target that came with the 853 had touching holes. More like one oblong hole. The best group I've gotten is about 3/4 inch. Do I measure them center to center or farthest width?
That rife will shoot targets like this all day long . Your rifle is a bigger one of these gun . It has all the same goody as this pistol .


Last edited by tx gun runner; 03-22-2014 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 03-23-2014, 07:46 AM   #12
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I'm not sure what pellets they use but the test target that came with the 853 had touching holes. More like one oblong hole. The best group I've gotten is about 3/4 inch. Do I measure them center to center or farthest width?
Since it's for your own use, either way is good, as long as you use the same way of measuring for each group, of course. Probably simplest just to measure farthest width.
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Old 03-23-2014, 08:02 AM   #13
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Since it's for your own use, either way is good, as long as you use the same way of measuring for each group, of course. Probably simplest just to measure farthest width.
If I was shooting .45ACP I would have a 3/8 inch spread with just one round if I measured the outside.
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Old 03-23-2014, 06:36 PM   #14
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measure outside to outside and subtract a caliber.
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Old 03-23-2014, 07:13 PM   #15
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measure outside to outside and subtract a caliber.
Wouldn't that be the same as center to center?
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Old 03-23-2014, 07:16 PM   #16
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Wouldn't that be the same as center to center?
Yes, but it is easier to get an accurate location for an edge. Machinists measure the cxc distance of holes this way, either inside to inside or outside to outside and add or subtract the radius of the holes.

cxc is the right way as you otherwise would give an automatic accuracy advantage to smaller calibers, as you point out.
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Old 03-23-2014, 07:22 PM   #17
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Yes, but it is easier to get an accurate location for an edge. Machinists measure the cxc distance of holes this way, either inside to inside or outside to outside and add or subtract the radius of the holes.

cxc is the right way as you otherwise would give an automatic accuracy advantage to smaller calibers, as you point out.
Thanks, that makes sense.
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Old 03-23-2014, 07:24 PM   #18
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Yes, but it is easier to get an accurate location for an edge. Machinists measure the cxc distance of holes this way, either inside to inside or outside to outside and add or subtract the radius of the holes.

cxc is the right way as you otherwise would give an automatic accuracy advantage to smaller calibers, as you point out.
I was just thinking when I measured the distance of the pins in the Mare's Leg receiver I measured it from the side to the edge of the receiver because the edge was easier to find. Glad to hear I did it right.
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Old 03-23-2014, 07:26 PM   #19
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A quick shortcut is to measure from the inner edge of one hole to the outer edge of the other. With holes the same size this allows a visual measure with no math corrections. It is limited to visual accuracy but you can't properly measure holes in paper anyway and it should be accurate enough with clean holes. This works with caliper or scale.

Last edited by Machinist; 03-23-2014 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 03-23-2014, 07:30 PM   #20
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I was just thinking when I measured the distance of the pins in the Mare's Leg receiver I measured it from the side to the edge of the receiver because the edge was easier to find. Glad to hear I did it right.
That is how we measure the location of a hole from an edge to close tolerances. If the hole is small diameter it may be more accurate to put a close fitting gage pin in the hole and measure to the far side of the pin, subtracting the radius. I had gage pin sets in my toolbox and used them often. With a small hole the flat on the edge of the caliper will cause error on the inside edge.
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